Thomas Ponders  0:01  
Welcome to Accession. Today I'm very excited to present something new for the show. Our first ever interview, I got a chance to sit down with Regina Merson, founder and creator of the incredible makeup company Reina Rebelde to talk about starting a business, the art of makeup, Frida Kahlo and the intersection of makeup and Latinx culture. But I would be remiss if I didn't give you a piece of art to sit in front of while you listen. So...

Thomas Ponders  0:37  
Today, we're at the Museum of Fine Arts in Boston, Massachusetts, head to the American wing, past the Chihuly sculpture and up to the third floor- not quite all the way up to visit Venus on the fourth. Head to your left until you find the room with the painting that's not usually where you expect to see a painting. Rather than on the wall, this painting is on a pedestal, so you can read the inscription on the back. And It's here that I think you'll get the most out of my conversation with Regina Merson- in front of MFA accession number 2015.3130, Dos Mujeres (Salvadora y Herminia), the first painting Frida Kahlo ever sold.

Thomas Ponders  1:50  
I'd like to talk about you if that's okay.

Regina Merson  1:51  
Sure. 

Thomas Ponders  1:52  
And the company that you created so you have a makeup company, you but you started in law is that correct?

Regina Merson  1:59  
Yes, I was a lawyer for over six years. I actually graduated from law school before the 2008 financial crisis. So I walked into my first job at a big firm, based out of New York, but I was working in their Dallas office as a real estate attorney for Lehman Brothers. That was what I was hired out of law school to do. And a year later, I got moved to the bankruptcy department, because our firm represented Lehman in the bankruptcy.

Thomas Ponders  2:30  
Gotcha. And so then from there, you then at some point made the jump to make up. What was the what was the inspiration to to leave law behind?

Regina Merson  2:39  
So the inspiration was really actually rather personal. Makeup had always been figured very prominently in my life. You'd be hard pressed to find a Latina that isn't surrounded with notions of femininity, beauty, makeup as power, how it's like a tool that we use to reveal and express parts of ourselves to the world at large that is on display and so many different things that you'll see in Mexican culture. But you see it in everything from like during the Mexican revolutionary war you had adelitas who were the women that were helping during that time and you know, they wore makeup and they did their hair in braids all the way to like telenovellas you know, soap operas that took took a stronghold in the 80s when I was growing up in Mexico and you witnessed a lot of how feminine power and your notion of yourself as a woman was very, like closely correlated to this, you know, ritual that you watch all women around, you engage in every single day like makeup, in Latina, you know, in a lot of Latino cultures and in particularly in Mexico is not quite optional. It's considered sort of an art form and part of who we are and part of like putting yourself together. That had always been part of my narrative. I had really despite immigrating to the US and going to college where no one really wore makeup, it was very much always present, right, as a storyline in my life, and something that even given multiple opportunities in my life and in my educational career, I never abandoned it. So I showed up to law class with makeup every day, right. And it wasn't something that a lot of other women adopted. But it didn't seem to matter how far I moved from home it was it was there. When I became a lawyer, it took on a different meaning and I understood it in a little bit of a different like way in the sense that it was more personal. At that point, it became a little bit of a loaded choice. There was a lot of perception at times it felt like not always but at times that you know, you are going to be a smart, capable attorney you couldn't be vain. You had to look nice, but understated. So there was, there was I'll never forget the first day I came to work at the law firm and I was wearing bright red lipstick. And the reaction I sort of got was like, "Whoa, that was a very bold choice." So at one point, as a lawyer, I felt I had sort of left women behind in a way and left my community behind in a way because I was so wrapped up in what I was doing. And it wasn't creative enough, which was something I didn't realize till I had been out of school for a long time where I was forced to do creative things as part of my curriculum. And once I was in such a focused area of law, I realized it kind of left a lot of things for me personally behind that I really enjoyed and needed to feel a well balanced life. And I started observing sort of how makeup had become the creative outlet that I had on a daily basis as a way to reclaim that moment or that experience. And with it kind of slowly, you know, the whole business idea started coming about. I just started really reflecting and paying attention to the thing I was naturally drawn to, which was makeup and how much makeup I was buying and how much time I spent watching YouTube videos of people doing makeup techniques. How fascinated I was by the art form of it, how empowering I found it when, you know, you could execute something really, really well, and the skill sets that are frankly that it requires. So marrying kind of that and then realizing my personal frustration with the fact that a lot of the makeup brands out there weren't speaking to me authentically, they didn't get that this was just a trans- like you know, kind of- this was either just a transactional item to get you out the door, or it was a brand that didn't resonate with me or I had to kind of create a hodgepodge of different makeup brands to come up with a you know a collection that really spoke to all like the different facets of my personality that I was trying to express through my beauty rituals. And then of course, I started looking at good lawyer doing business research, and the statistics were alarming. Like, it turns out, I wasn't the only one that was frustrated. There were a lot of people out there they were frustrated. Latinas buy more cosmetics than every other woman in the country, and nobody was like really taking the time to understand or speak to them. I remember being marketed to and a lot of different ways by different brands or people that makeup counters and and when they realize that I was Mexican, the the response and the attitude was just so tone deaf, and so clueless, and it felt so insulting. And when I realized that there was tremendous economic power that was being brought to the table by Latinas in the beauty industry, it sort of set off like a perfect chain of events of "Wait a minute, you know, no one. Everyone's frustrated by this. We're being talked down to in a way. It's very patronizing. No one really understands why we buy so much makeup but it turns out we are like a major source of revenue for all these companies and how come no one's doing this authentically and kind of from the inside." So that was that was a the genesis of the whole idea.

Thomas Ponders  8:18  
I have... I want to circle back and continue the narrative but I do have a quick question because it just occurred to me- why did you decide to start doing law? What what was the drive to do law in the beginning?

Regina Merson  8:29  
So the drive to do law really stemmed from my need for order in the world, right. I was an immigrant to this country. It was a very wonderful experience in some regards and incredibly scarring in others. I was around 10 years old. I didn't speak the language fluently. I was very frustrated by the two or so years it took me to really understand and get my feet wet about the American educational system which is very different from the Mexican educational system. The Mexican educational system is more European in many regards. And I really felt the- I sensed- I guess- the limitations that everyone around me was already projecting my way even as a young child because I was an immigrant and because I didn't speak English that well. And I was really frustrated and I think kind of out to prove that it was all surmountable, right, and that was within my control. So I really, yeah, I really just became a very school focused person and with that, you know, ended up in debate and loved kind of the sense of order of things and love the command of language that you needed in order to be a lawyer. And so when I was very young, I decided I was going to be a lawyer.

Thomas Ponders  9:45  
So I guess then we've, you've started this company. And I have a question that's kind of an odd question, but I want to ask it anyway, because the Frida Kahlo painting that we have at the MFA here in Boston is the first Frida Kahlo painting- or the first painting that she ever sold. She sold it to an engineer from the United States. And on the back of it, it marks- it's written- like she signed it, "This is the memory of a wonderful night when I sold my first painting." What was the first moment that that you felt like you were successful, or you felt you felt like you had brought this dream into some sort of realization?

Regina Merson  10:26  
Gosh, you know, there there have been several. I think when I first received the finished product in my hand, and it arrived at my office, and I had seen all the decisions and the three, four years prior that went into the creation of this one lipstick as an example, it was very surreal, because at that moment, I had taken an idea and turned it into something actually physical and the amount of background work and the thousands of little decisions that have to be made to get a product to market is mind boggling. And I think that there were times when I thought it was never going to happen. And for some reason, it was almost like in holding that lipstick in my hand after seeing prototypes and different things and seeing how everything came together was really surreal, because whether or not it ever sold at that point, or, or, or it was a success or a failure, I had managed to take an idea from from my own brain and like created into something tangible. So that was very surreal. And then after we launched, you know, obviously the first five orders we got were people I knew. So that was never, you know, that was not that surreal for me. But I think the first order we received on our website from a complete stranger was surreal. It was like "Okay, somebody else besides everybody in my network knows about this."

Unknown Speaker  12:02  
Yes, as a podcast, I've I've had that exact moment before too. I had someone come up to me and say that they loved the show who I had no idea who they were, and it It blew my mind.

Unknown Speaker  12:12  
Exactly. Because you- there's so much energy imbued in anything you put out there. And it's very nerve wracking. And I'd never put, I never put anything creative out there. And I'd made a lot of what I'm going to call controversial decisions about my packaging, I was given, you know, guidelines, well, tradition states, you do it this way, in this way, in this way, and you can do it this way. but breaking all these rules.... And there were a lot of those moments, you know, leading up to the launch of the line that I had to make some hard calls. And I did them without having any insight into whether it was, you know, the stupidest thing I was ever going to do with the smartest thing that's ever going to do. In many ways. I still don't know, but you know, to see that and say, "Okay, well, and here are all the risks and the right decisions and the wrong decisions you made and they're right here," was, it's pretty surreal.

Thomas Ponders  13:02  
Can I can I ask for a specific of a time that you went against the grain of from what everybody told you to do?

Regina Merson  13:08  
Oh, sure. I mean, I was- packaging design for beauty is very specific because of the amount of disclosure and regulation around it. And also, I never imagined my product was going to be sold at the store. So when I launched I had this idea that it was going to be completely online. And the way you you design packaging for in-stores very different than just an online purchase or a mass store versus, you know, a more upscale store. So, I was very resolute about the fact that when I looked at our logo, it didn't- it's actually an ambigram. So it's a form of artwork that when you read it one way you read it the- you flip it around and it reads the same way the other way. And that was really because I wanted every touch point of the entire brand experience to speak to what my message was, and my message was about dualities. And Latina women today live in this like chaos of dualities, right? They're speaking Spanish at home, they speak English out in the workplace, they have friends from all over there, you know, really stepping into a lot of heritage type traditions and trying to keep those alive. They're very much influenced by their families. And yet when you're out in the world and United States, it's certainly a very complicated difference in values at times, and you kind of have to make your own way and decide who you're going to be in spite of that chaos and everyone along the way is trying to pigeonhole you to certain extent. "Oh, you're Latina. Oh, you're not Latina. Oh you're Latina, but you don't want to be Latina." Like, you know, and it's just not that clean. And a lot of what the messaging behind the brand is and ethos and one of our values is to be really unapologetic about these dualities and makeup happens to be a tool that really allows you to show off different sides of your personality and your history. Because a lot of Latinas will, will relate to this, but you will walk out some days and have the craziest kind of makeup execution that's really fun. And then you'll do something totally different the next day, whereas non Latino women tend to, you know, be informed about what looks right on them, and they will execute that look faithfully kind of for eternity. So, the ambigram really resonated for me when the packaging designer returned to me with mockups and said, "You know, I've been thinking about everything you've said and everything you want to channel into the packaging. And this ambigram to me, basically, is the ethos of brand, which is you're always a reina, you're always a queen, and you're always a rebelde. So both coexist in you- the light and the dark- and a lot of the packaging is about those dualities, and those contrasts and how they coexist within you all the time and how that's actually like a source of power and pride. But you can't- if you don't know what it is you can't quite, you know, read it because it's not in, you know, Times New Roman 12 point font. And, you know, when we did end up launching a target, this became, "But I can't read it," and you know, then you get into the customer journey of how hard do they want to work to understand parts of your brand. Having said that, I stick by it because I think our brand is really- the packaging of our brand reeks of symbols. There's a different symbol in every category of product. There are symbols on the outside of the carton, there are symbols on the inside of the carton. And that's what the brand is about and the ambigram is a symbol. And it's not meant to be something- it's meant to be something that's internally owned, not something where we own the customer, but rather where they own the brand. And I think when you have something that's a little bit more symbolic versus like completely legible and written out, it, it presents its own challenges, but it also works at the same time.

Thomas Ponders  17:23  
There's such a cool narrative going on here of like, you're talking about your need for order and now the chaos of duality, and also your love of language and sort of in the ambigram, you you've sort of harnessed all of those things together in the chaos of duality, finding order in it through the power of language. It's just a really cool- it all seems to resonate together so well.

Regina Merson  17:44  
Yeah, yes, I think it does. And you know, does always speak to me because everything isn't always as it seems. And I think when you launch a business, you realize that some people are going to love your brand and some people are not gonna like it at all, and that's okay. And we definitely are after a consumer where- I remember some someone at some point saying, but people will have to work too hard for it. And I say this is a group of people, my primary audience is a group of people that spend hours perfecting a winged eyeliner to go to the grocery store,

Thomas Ponders  18:21  
They're going to work hard for it.

Regina Merson  18:22  
They want to work hard for things they're not- they don't want the easy way out. They want to work hard for it. It is it's about the technical skill, it's about understanding. And, you know, you do at some point have to have a leap of faith in, in taking a moment to, to understand, like I get in some way, I guess, project who you think your ultimate consumer is going to be. And try to cater to, you know, their inner like resources as opposed to catering to this understanding of the lowest common denominator and what makes things easy. And I've always been a person that wants to work for things. And maybe that's not everyone's experience, and maybe that makes me very inefficient. But I enjoy that more because I feel like I participate in something versus it being spoon fed to me.

Thomas Ponders  19:12  
I have this question written down, but I think you've kind of already answered it. But where do you stand on the debate of whether or not makeup constitutes a form of visual art?

Regina Merson  19:22  
Makeup ab- Yeah, I mean, I think you know exactly where I stand.

Thomas Ponders  19:26  
I know who I'm asking this question to.

Regina Merson  19:29  
It absolutely is a form of visual art and as prolific as my makeup skills are at times, or I think they are. I've been around professionals who do things that you know, it's, it's on another level, like, I think you could take some of these makeup artists that are so incredibly talented and self taught, which I think is usually really important. There certainly are a lot of people that are professionally trained. The majority of the makeup artists we work with are self taught. And I think that there's- that that says a lot about the art form. It is driven by inner creativity and it is driven by art form that you wear every single day. This is not like one two quick stature, there's room in everyone's life for the get out the door. But when you really want to create something that has creative expression, it requires a skill set that everybody doesn't have. It requires a steadiness of hand, it requires an understanding of how colors work together, how products layer on top of each other. It's no different in many regards, and understanding how different types of paint and paint brushes affect a canvas. And depending on whether you're drawing, you know, drawing on paper versus painting on, you know, cotton canvas or wood right. And all of those elements are in play as a makeup artist when you're doing makeup on somebody's face because you're contending with 100 different variables from facial structure to skin type to colors and an eye color and all these sorts of things. So yeah, I think you know where I stand on that it's definitely an art form. 

Thomas Ponders  21:12  
Um, so then I guess my follow up question to that- The reason I asked that question is to lead into the question of like, in the rest of the visual art world, we have things like museums or gallery spaces or public art, as ways of like celebrating and giving art appreciators a way to view and celebrate the art. What do you think are the best ways for art appreciators to view and celebrate the art of makeup?

Regina Merson  21:41  
You know, with the advent of amazing photo editing software, it's really hard to appreciate, you know, some photos because you know that they've been edited in some way. I think video watching like YouYuber or an expert to a video and watching them work is probably the best way to do it. We obviously are inundated with YouTubers who do make up videos and show you their techniques in different ways. I think because it's very engaging. I don't know why they're so addicting but I know a lot of people that don't even wear makeup that love watching them. And I think the reason why to is it shows you how ephemeral, the whole processes is as well. Unlike a piece of art that maybe last forever on a museum wall, no matter how amazing your makeup is, you're going to wipe it off at the end of the day. And you're going to start over. And so it's a little bit of I think watching video is, you know, through social media in particular, the most interesting way to watch people work.

Thomas Ponders  22:54  
Do you think there's room for video of people applying makeup in art museums?

Regina Merson  23:01  
Yeah, I do think there is. And there are a lot of people that I've met through this company, who I think if they had been channeled like three degrees to the left would be painting paintings. But somehow at some point in their life, they were channeled this other direction and became makeup artists. And I think there are a lot of similarities and and I never actually thought about having something like that in a museum. But it is, it is kind of, it's like graffiti art in a way. Right? There are a lot of people that know how to do it that are not elevated all times to this super artists level. Because they're not classical the way we maybe understand them to be But yeah, I think it would be fascinating to have, you know, a pop art type, present day pop art exhibition where you watch people through videos, doing makeup

Thomas Ponders  24:09  
When we return from the break, we'll turn our conversation to Frida Kahlo, makeup, and cultural appropriation and appreciation. But first, I'm sure with all this talk of makeup and empowerment, you're probably thinking, "I should really try something new with my look", get a fresh color palette, or maybe perfect your winged eyeliner. Or maybe you know someone whose makeup is always on fleek and looking for the latest trends. The answer is, of course, Reina Rebelde. And I have some exciting news for you. Now through the end of the month as an Accession listener, you will get 20% off your online order on reinarebelde.com when you use the offer code ACCESSION, that's A-C-C-E-S-S-I-O-N, the name of this podcast at checkout. Maybe you want to try their award winning Brava lipstick, the Zapatista liquid eyeliner, or even their best selling brow paint called Frida. Reina Rebelde is Latina owned and cruelty free. As well, their products make excellent gifts in this, the gift giving season. Again, right now Accession listeners get 20% off their order, when they use the code ACCESSION at checkout. Certain exclusions apply and that code will only work through the end of the month so act now. That website is linked in the show notes below, and is also on the Accession website, but one more time, it's reinarebelde.com- that's R-E-I-N-A R-E-B-E-L-D-E, reinarebelde.com, offer code ACCESSION. Now back to the show.

Thomas Ponders  26:02  
How has the art of Frida Kahlo affected your understanding of what beauty means, your understanding of femininity and also like your understanding of Mexican culture?

Regina Merson  26:14  
So, you know, she is, she's a national treasure in Mexico, and she was when she was alive. For the people involved in that world, she experienced commercial success while she was alive. This is not a woman who many years later, everybody decided she was great. The world may have woken up to that. But while she was alive, people realized who she was. And I think it's it's a very fascinating thing because she represents so much of what is so Mexican. And part of what is so Mexican is exhibiting your, kind of, your range of emotions in a way that I think a lot of other cultures find to be too much, right. And here's a woman who is crippled. She had polio. She was in a terrible bus accident. She spends her time in bed and so much physical pain, and she channels all of this and decides that she's going to share it with the world. And in many ways, she painted the first selfie, right? Like it was, there were there had been self portraits prior to that, certainly, but not self portraits of people in anguish. And I think that is so Mexican, right. There is something very much about the cultural consciousness of Mexico that you show your pain the way you show your joy,a nd that range of emotion is something to be celebrated. You know, we just finished Day of the Dead, and it's such a powerful holiday in Mexico because it is a celebration of life, even if it is a very sad thing and you do it very publicly. So I think she always represented the ultimate like, unapologetic woman who was who she was. She embraced who she was in a very, very profoundly real way. And a lot of it wasn't pretty. And that didn't diminish anything from her being a woman, that she wasn't a traditional beauty, per se, right. She was,  she had all these issues. She was never able to bear children like all of these notions of femininity at the time, she kind of turned on their head and said, but I still am forcing you to see me as I really am even if it's not what I wanted to see.

Thomas Ponders  28:43  
Do you think she is seen that way in in modern American culture? Do you think that people see the side of pain that she was trying to express in her art?

Regina Merson  28:55  
No, no. I think she's become an icon because she was so empowered by her unconventional female looks right? Like, she wore lipstick. She was really into makeup. And she had a mustache. And she had a unibrow. And there were a lot of things about her that were not conventional. And I think that really resonates to a lot of women who are tired of being boxed into this notion of what they're supposed to look like. You know, you're supposed to look like a supermodel. You're supposed to have this figure. You're supposed to, you know, have this type color hair and, and women are exhausted by it. And that's not a new topic per se. But I think a lot of women have really gravitated to this, this woman who said, "I'm still going to wear makeup and I'm going to dress up and I'm going to do things that bring attention to me, even though I don't satisfy traditional notions of beauty" even for Frida at the time, and it is very liberating and it is very empowered. And that's what I think people have really clung on to. Less so, maybe in my experience, less so, there's a less profound understanding of her art. There's a less- there's a very confused understanding, in my opinion too, about her political affiliations. And, you know, in it has become, she has become this icon, and a lot of people want to own her. And that's a very sensitive thing. If you tell people that they have to understand Frida as a whole in a very academic way, and you have you have to understand her paintings in order to put her up on a pedestal, well, that doesn't work either. But she was so much more than a painter, right? Her life itself is fascinating. And I think, you know, that's okay. Maybe over time, people will understand more of where she comes from and where her her art really tells a lot of her story.

Thomas Ponders  31:02  
Um, is it is there a different perception of Frida Kahlo today in Mexico?

Regina Merson  31:07  
No, I think everybody realizes she's become incredibly commercialized. I mean, you can't- you can't go to a Mexican market and like, not find a Frida fill in the blank. I mean, key chain, you know. And, and I think that's okay, and there's, like everything in Mexico, there's an intersection, always, an intersection between how national treasures, whether it's weavers or, you know, the way tequila is made or mezcal and these very traditional embedded heritage practices with artists and so forth, there's that and then there's the commercialization of it. There is the, you know, way in which the community and a lot of the population will take those things put their own kind of quick spin on it. And the two have always coexisted. Because most people that that are very much involved in, for example, her art have a lot of access to- it's not the only thing that they have access to are these commercialization, you know, tokens and things of her. They understand where they can go see her art, they understand that there are institutions devoted to studying her art, and they seek those things out. And that's that is a little bit about the way Mexico is- is things can be really sacred, but there's room for iterations beyond that that are accessible to the rest of the population, because the rest of the population doesn't have access to the Frida Kahlo Museum necessarily, and people understand that.

Thomas Ponders  32:47  
Um, I guess, then my next question is as a businesswoman, as somebody who sells a makeup brush called Frida, who participated in the in the Freda Fest, where do you for your company and I guess for yourself personally draw a line between celebrating Kahlo, understanding Kahlo as an artist and understanding the pain and the joy she's communicating, but also using Kahlo's image for marketing and using Kahlo to evoke that in the audience that you're selling makeup to?

Regina Merson  33:23  
Yeah, so the product we have is called Frida, it's not called Frida Kahlo, it is called Frida, and it's a brow pomade. It's definitely a nod to her eyebrow, right? Her eyebrows style her unibrow. The use of her image is part and parcel of the larger ethos of our brand, where we are trying to make sure that the community continues to be exposed to amazing women that we call reina rebeldes amongst us. Not just in today's world, not just, you know, among our contemporaries, but the women of our past and all our different countries that were part of the heritage that has allowed Latinas today to feel kind of this fierce ability to push forward. And when you have women from your past to look to it is a very powerful experience. Because so many young women today in the United States, which is one of the things I learned, who are Latina, but weren't necessarily immigrants, the way I was, are several generations removed from their heritage. Millennial women in particular are very encouraged by and very curious about reclaiming things such as the Spanish language and learning to be more proficient in it. And really reclaiming a lot of their culture. And the reason why is, a few generations back immigrants to this country in many areas were told, basically, you know, you need to leave your culture behind. If you're ever going to integrate or assimilate, need not teach your children Spanish, you need to adopt as many American cultural norms as possible. And so when you're a little bit more removed, a lot of things have gotten diluted. And young women today are trying to change the tide on that and reclaim things that they're sad that have been sort of unexpressed in their own like, homes and their own ancestral, you know, stories. And I think, in realizing that people do really look up to a lot of these women, it's everyone from Frida Kahlo to Rita Moreno, to Eva Perone, to so so many different Latina women amongst us that have done really, really incredible things and the brand is meant to and has from day one been celebrating that woman, and that woman is part of our collective heritage. So we also spotlight women and you know who are alive in the flesh today, who are making moves and breaking boundaries. And we do that all the time. I don't think I think Frida is a little bit touchier right now, because of how she's been commercialized, and I think that makes a lot of sense. I think the community is incredibly tired of being told by everybody else who has never really appreciated the community, what they should wear, how they should wear it, who they should idolize, and how to do it. And that point of inauthenticity is the biggest inflection point in the entire thing when it comes from an authentic source and the brand is authentic, it has a very different meaning because it comes from a place of understanding of, "You and I share our love for this woman for all of these reasons. And it comes from a very genuine and authentic place. And celebrating her is something we can do together." When somebody from outside the community, like "Oh, by the way, did you know about this famous artists? Like we're going to go slap her face on everything and sell it to you?" it feels insulting.

Thomas Ponders  37:29  
I have to say I've followed your Instagram and one of my absolute like, favorite things about the Instagram. I don't follow a lot of makeup companies to be fair, but you have, you know, pictures of Selena and pictures of Frida Kahlo and also pictures of modern people and makeup and I think just today or the other day, there's like a picture of a mother with her child and like really great makeup and like to see those two things balanced together. There is this sort of like, hyperpresentation of these, you know, gorgeous photographs of historical figures, next to photos taken on cell phones today and and they don't they don't seem discontinuous, they seem to be part of the same story that you're trying to tell.

Regina Merson  38:14  
Yeah, and I think sometimes I think of makeup for Latinas as a type of war paint in a weird way. And I think that's why a lot of the historical figures resonate so much with the community and our customers in particular, because it is empowering and you hear the stories of women 20, 40, 50 and beyond years ago that we're really making waves. And, and you see the intersection of how they presented themselves. Frida is one example is a perfect example of that right? She was a member of the Communist Party. She was painting about these very surrealist, painful subject matters that were incredibly personal but she wore Revlon lipstick. You know and cared about her eyebrows and the intersection of you could be fierce and profound and have so much to say and share, a lot of which is dark, but also be a woman that wears lipstick and makeup- which I think for a lot of people feels really shallow at times and it feels very vain- and in many cultures of the two don't intersect. In Latina culture they intersect beautifully. And that's a lot of what Reina Rebelbe is about. You can be a queen and you can be a rebel. And and you know, we like to call them are like, you know, historical reina rebeldes but the Frida was a very perfect example of that. She was an androgynous dresser, right, she wore men's clothes and like, I think things like that also really speak to where as a as a community we are today and all the changes that are happening and people's ability to feel more unapologetic about where they are even if it's defies explanation.

Thomas Ponders  40:01  
I think that sums it up perfectly. Are there any things that you wanted to talk about in this interview or things that you, points that you think you you might have missed somewhere along the line?

Regina Merson  40:11  
No, I mean, I think, I think, for us, the challenge is always that there has to be a nice- there has to be a very positive balance between what I hear about a lot today, which is cultural appropriation, right, and also being able to leave cultural elements that are so powerful and compelling for a lot of people outside of our community in a way that's accessible to them. I think it actually helps the narrative tremendously, in a divided country, when you have people that may not understand who I am as a Mexican immigrant, but understand Frida Kahlo. And maybe sometimes things like that are the starting point to really productive conversations and healing conversations. And it's a tough balance right now because it has to be done delicately and respectfully, certainly, but it can't be so precious at times that we close off our really strong cultural elements, so we don't welcome people into them. And I think Frida and all the conversations around her as of late are very, very interesting example of that.

Thomas Ponders  41:28  
Yeah. I I guess I do have one last question that I just kind of thought of that ties on to that but um, you know, I have- I don't have all the statistics about my audience, but I know I have a very diverse audience that listens to the show, based on the interactions I have online and with people in person. I guess my question is it if someone just heard your story and and heard us talk about Frida Kahlo and heard about makeup in maybe a way that they haven't heard about makeup before, what would you want them to do? What would you want them to do after they put put up their headphones and move on into the world having heard this conversation?

Regina Merson  42:13  
I think, I think it would be hopefully permission if you weren't already curious about it, but hopefully, to give you a little nudge in curiosity and permission to go explore something different, you know. I know a lot of women, for example, who have been told for many years that they can't wear this and they can't wear this color and they can't do this. And they're all these rules. And one of the things I love about when women who are not Latina, find our brand as an example as part of our ethos is like they're kind of are no rules, right? And that's part of owning your power as a woman is exploring different looks and trying different things on and feeling really liberated and unapologetic about it. So it is a about stepping outside of your comfort zone. And whether that's, "I'm curious about makeup now in a way that I hadn't been" or "I never viewed it as a form of self expression." it may be another creative outlet that somebody has discovered that they may want to explore. And then from the cultural side of it, you know, we are so inclusive and we are so open, like there's nothing that makes me happier than when I have a friend that comes to Mexico with me and goes home and adopts something that really resonated with her. I think, I think that's how we all grow as people and and I love that Frida Kahlo is so relevant right now because I think it makes people really curious about how other people in other countries emote, how a woman's journey really transforms so many generations thereafter. And she wasn't your typical woman. She didn't have children. She didn't have your traditional marriage. She wasn't, you know, she wasn't all these things that we've been told as women were supposed to be. She really bucked that and she still made her mark and it was still really relevant and people are still talking about it today. And I think that that's everybody's journey, is that the path is not really predetermined. You have to make your own rules and makeup for me every day is a reminder of the fact that we we all have the right to make our own rules in many regards.

Thomas Ponders  44:33  
My huge thanks once again to Regina Merson, founder and CEO of Reina Rebelde for joining me on this very special episode of Accession. Remember, if you go to reinarebelde.com now through the end of the month, and use the offer code ACCESSION, you'll get 20% off your order. That link and code will be in the show notes and on our website at accessions.fm. 

Thomas Ponders  44:57  
As well. I wanted to take a quick moment to mention our Patreon. If obsession has ever made you see the world differently or added some hope and joy into your life, consider supporting us over patreon.com/accessionfm. No matter what tier you support at, you get access to exclusive essays, bonus minisodes, and behind the scenes extras. This week, patrons get to hear a part of this interview that didn't quite make it into the show, where we talk about the Guinness world record for the most Fridas in one place, and the part that Reina Rebelde played in that record. It's a delightful part of the conversation that just didn't quite make the cut. Again, head over to patreon.com/accessionfm, and remember that you get access to all of the content that's there, no matter how much you pledge. Your single dollar every month is worth that much to us, and shows us how much you care about independent podcasting, art and making the world a better place. Again, that's patreon.com/accessionfm.

Thomas Ponders  46:22  
Our show art is by the incredible V Silverman. Our theme music was performed by Mike Harmon with recording editing and mixing from Casey Dawson, and additional music from Blue Dot Sessions. The show is produced, recorded, edited, and tucked into bed by me, T.H. Ponders. You can follow the show on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook @accessionfm, or sign up for our newsletter at the link in the notes of the show. And as always, you can find images to accompany this episode, the transcript, the sources, and a few other goodies over on our website at accession.fm.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai